Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/07/1998 05:10 PM House RLS
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
CSSB 259(TRA) AM - METROPOLITAN PLANNING AUTHORITY Number 045 CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the first order of business would be CSSB 259(TRA) am, "An Act relating to the membership of a metropolitan highway planning organization." He noted there is a proposed committee substitute before the committee. SENATOR DAVE DONLEY came before the committee to explain the bill. He pointed out that the bill is a Senate Transportation Committee bill and Senator Ward has asked him to speak on behalf of the Anchorage Caucus as the bill is a caucus priority. Senator Donley explained the legislation is the Anchorage Metropolitan Area Transportation Study (AMATS) restructuring proposal to change the composition of the AMATS Committee. He explained that the AMATS Committee is the committee that is imposed on Anchorage by the Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act (ISTEA) that sets priorities for transportation projects in the Anchorage area. Currently, the committee has five members which consists of the mayor and two assembly members appointed by the mayor. Also, there are two people who are appointed by the Governor, one from the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) and one from the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOT/PF). Senator Donley informed the committee that the version of the bill that passed the Senate would reduce the appointees by the Governor by one. It would add one House member and one Senate member to the AMATS Committee. He pointed out that there was some concern expressed by the members of the assembly and the Municipality of Anchorage in that they wanted to maintain majority votes for the city on the AMATS Committee. There was also the question of who appoints the Anchorage members. Senator Donley said there has been ongoing discussions with the assembly and they took a position against the revision of AMATS Committee, but he believes that was based on an earlier version of the bill. He said there are letters from the federal government stating that they don't mind if legislators were to be added to the committee. Number 111 SENATOR DONLEY said, "We've prepared a CS for the committee to consider because it just seemed to facilitate conversation with the assembly and the municipal government, but if we had a proposal before us rather than talking in abstracts -- the proposed CS would change the membership so that there would be one from the governor, one from the House, one from the Senate and there would be two chosen by the assembly and two chosen by the mayor. So the city would maintain four votes, the state would have three, but of those three it'd be one from the House and one from the Senate. It also resolves the question of who appoints the local members and making it clear that two would chosen by the local assembly and two would be chosen by the mayor of Anchorage for that." Senator Donley said he hopes that would be acceptable to the municipal government and it's a proposal that they want to work with and try to come up with something that answers their concerns and still allows people to participate in the process. Number 132 SENATOR JERRY WARD came before the committee and stated he concurs with the proposed CS and believes that Senator Donley has found a workable solution to a perceived impasse. CHAIRMAN KOTT asked how the municipality currently selects their three members. SENATOR DONLEY explained that the current selection is set out in the compact - the agreement between the mayor and the governor. He said, "In there, the mayor is allowed to choose the two assembly members who are on there and also to choose somebody to represent himself and uses the mayor. It's set out in that compact. It actually says that one will be a commissioner from the Southcentral Clean Air Authority, representing the Municipality of Anchorage, nominated by the assembly and appointed by the mayor. In essence, that has always been an assembly member is my understanding. Although it is kind of convoluted, that is what it results in. The other position is specifically designated as an Anchorage assemblyman nominated by the assembly and appointed by the mayor, and then the final municipal position is the municipal mayor. And that's set out in an agreement between the mayor and the governor." SENATOR DONLEY pointed out that there has been internal discussions in the Anchorage government between the assembly and the mayor. He said he believes that there was a proposed question to put before the voters about whether the assembly should choose their own members or whether it should be the mayor. Number 176 REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER noted that he was appointed by the mayor, as an assemblyman, to serve in the roll as the member that was interested in the air quality issues. He noted that member may only vote on air quality issues that come before the committee. The other assembly member votes on all issues that come before the committee. SENATOR DONLEY explained that might have been revised under this particular agreement. He said he isn't sure if that is still the condition. Number 192 REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS asked if AMATS is a municipal organization. SENATOR DONLEY explained that it is a federal mandate upon a community in excess of 50,000, under ISTEA, that requires joint state and local membership. It is not an exclusive municipal organization. He said it is not a federal mandate. You have to have a committee, but the federal government doesn't dictate who the membership of the committee. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked Senator Donley if he was invited by the Anchorage Assembly to become a participant in AMATS or is the issue a legislatively driven issue. SENATOR DONLEY responded that it is a legislatively driven issue. The Anchorage Caucus held hearings last fall and adopted this as a priority. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked for clarification on whether or not the Anchorage Assembly is interested in having the legislature involved. She referred to it being municipal organization and asked why the state legislature would want to get involved. Number 217 REPRESENTATIVE WARD explained the funding belongs to the people of Alaska and it comes through the state legislature in order to authorize the various programs. He said they want to make sure that the collective balance is there. Number 222 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS said, "And why don't you do like the rest of us and get rid of AMATS and just do -- all of the rest of us live with the STIP (Statewide Transportation Improvement Plan) and the ISTEA monies being directed by the Department of Transportation. Everyone of us in the rest of the state, with the exception of the city of Anchorage - Municipality of Anchorage -- the Municipality of Anchorage, because of federal law, has a different way of handling things, but it did not include the legislative body." Representative Phillips suggested petitioning to change the federal law and the population issue. She said she had thought Fairbanks was in the process of organizing FMATS also. Representative Phillips said they would also like one on the Kenai Peninsula and maybe there should be one in Southeast Alaska. Representative Phillips stated that to her, AMATS has always been a municipal organization and now the legislative entity is being inserted into that. She said she would like to hear from the assembly. Number 243 SENATOR DONLEY said they have tried to work with the assembly. He said he believes the biggest concern is that there are two unelected members on the AMATS Committee and they are appointed by the governor of the state. The elected representatives and the people on the state level have no say in the prioritization process that AMATS involves. He stated that unless the AMATS Committee chooses to put things on the TIP (Transportation Improvement Plan), we aren't allowed to use federal funds for them although the legislature must approve those expenditures through the budget process. Senator Donley stated, "So by not allowing legislators, being legislators are the only elected officials not being represented at the table in the planning process, and yet requiring us to make a decision on whether or not to fund those specific projects, which is necessary under the constitution to be in the state budget, it puts us in a difficult position because we don't get a say in how the planning process develops or the final list. But then were presented with a 'take it or leave it proposition' during the budget." Number 260 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS pointed out that none of the rest of the elected officials anywhere in the state are part of that planning process. She said, "We come in and approve the STIP and approve the funding mechanism, but we're not involved in that so..." SENATOR WARD said there are a lot of problems with that too. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS suggested solving that problem. SENATOR WARD stated that in this particular case there is a funding mechanism that will be taking away from the Eagle River Road and giving it to trees. He said it is time that we, as elected officials, step up to the plate and decide that these dollars should no longer be just spent without a complete public process to it, and that includes the elective body of the legislature other than just a bunch of bureaucrats that like trees. Number 278 REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS said he would have to agree with Representative Phillips as he is working hard to try to get something on the STIP and he can't get it on the STIP as it is being help up. It has been something that has been ongoing for the last 20 years. REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON said he would also have to agree with Representative Phillips. He stated that he thinks that the beauty of the AMATS process is that we're transferring decision-making down to the local level, which is the level that he is most comfortable with. Representative Elton said that there may be a problem created under the federal codes that govern metropolitan planning organizations. He read from information, "Redesignation of a metropolitan planning organization in a multi-state metropolitan area requires the approval of the governor of each state and the local officials representing 75 percent of the population of the entire metropolitan planning area, and the local officials in the central city or cities must be among those agreeing to the redesignation." Representative Elton said that would seem to him to mandate the approval by the local officials. He said he would assume that they mean the elected local officials through the assembly. SENATOR DONLEY said it is through the compact process of the agreement between the governor and the mayor as to how that process has been conducted over the past decade. Obviously, the legislature sets the policy for the state. So if the legislature adopted a statute that said, "This is how the governor shall structure this," the governor would be obligated to structure it that way. Senator Donley referred to the question of getting it down to the local level and said currently there are two people who are appointed by the governor that don't represent the local government. He said he believes it is much more down to the local level when you have the local elected officials participating in addition to the assembly, the mayor and the local elected legislators. Number 336 MARK BEGICH, Assembly Chairman, Municipality of Anchorage, testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He noted that in front of the assembly, for action later in the evening, is a resolution reemphasizing the assembly's opposition to SB 259. Mr. Begich stated the official position of the assembly by resolution is opposing the legislation. He said, "We do not support this bill and we have not supported any new form. Now there are individual members, if I recall that vote that night, it was 7 - 4 or 8 - 3, so its 8 for the resolution, 3 against. So it was a super majority of the assembly opposing the bill." Mr. Begich informed the committee that he received a memorandum from the Senate Transportation Committee and the proposed Rules Committee work draft. He stated the assembly has taken the position in opposition to the bill. It is viewed that it diminishes the authority of local government, specifically the assembly. He noted the additional resolution that will come before the assembly later in the evening is in response to the Rules Committee work draft. Number 379 CHARLES WOHLFORTH, Assembly Member, Municipality of Anchorage, testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He noted he represents the downtown district in Anchorage and has been a member of the AMATS Committee for three and a half years. He said recently he sponsored a collection of ordinances and resolutions to change the way the assembly interacts with AMATS. Among those were ordinances indicating changes they wanted in the operating agreement, which is the agreement between the state and the municipality which sets up the AMATS structure and how it works. Mr. Wohlforth explained a new operating agreement has been in draft for some time and it is about to be finalized. It includes the changes that they made in cooperation with the state Administration. He referred to the new set up they created through their ordinances and a charter amendment, which will be before the voters on April 21, and said it provides that the assembly will be appointing its own representatives to AMATS. The reason for that was a sense that they should be able to have direct accountability for those members serving on the committee. Mr. Wohlforth stated that previously the assembly had recommended members and then the mayor had appointed them. He said they have eliminated the Southcentral Clean Air Commission component. The voting of the members, since 1993, has been full voting privileges for all five members of the Policy Committee. The system of some members having the ability to vote on some issues and other not was done away with in 1993. MR. WOHLFORTH referred to clarifying the statement that the funding from AMATS comes from the state and said the funding comes from federal gas taxes which are passed from the state to the local government, on the 90/10 match, on facilities that are owned by the municipality. The municipality funds a 10 percent match and on state-owned facilities the state funds a 10 percent match. The money is actually federal money and is given to us according to the mandates of the federal government. He explained he believes that Anchorage currently receives about 18 percent of the federal highway funding coming to Alaska as they have roughly 40 percent of the population. MR. WOHLFORTH informed the committee members that the AMATS agreement is required, by federal law, to be cooperative between the state and the municipality. He said that when he was working on his efforts to reform and change the AMATS structure, he went through several years of negotiation on working out each detail between the mayor, the assembly and the state DOT/PF to make sure that each element was agreed to by all sides. Mr. Wohlforth stated his understanding of the law is that if the process is not cooperative, then that becomes a problem with the federal government and it is not something that one side or the other can simply mandate how it's going to work. He noted that is one of his main concerns with the bill being considered. Essentially, the change would be mandated over the objections of the municipality. He said he thinks that would require us either just simply acquiesce or the system would then not be cooperative and then there would be a problem with the federal funding. Mr. Wohlforth noted that there has been quite a bit of work done between the mayor and the assembly. Some of the changes they asked for were controversial because of the fact that it has been a real balancing act - a balance of powers on the committee with two assembly appointed members, one who is the mayor and then the two state members. If the formula is changed so that the mayor appoints two members and the assembly appoints two members, then obviously the assembly has less influence in the process comparative to the mayor, and then if another state member is added, then he would have even less authority compared to the state. He said currently they have two of five and they would need only one more to have a majority and then under the new system they would be two of seven. Mr. Wohlforth said, "Since we're the body that approves the comprehensive plan, does the road bonds and deals with these issues on a daily basis, that to me doesn't seem like a wise or fair way to go about it. So I would recommend taking a real close look at this and be very careful in trying to go forward and maintain a cooperative aspect of the system." Number 454 BOB BELL, Assembly Member, Municipality of Anchorage, was next to testify via teleconference from Anchorage. He explained, "First of all under the STIP, the state actually gets first bite to this federal funding apple. Then the money is moved to Anchorage, at least our portion of it and you actually get -- and we decide which way these projects are going to go. And then, again, the state gets the last bite because the state is the one that funds the project or authorizes funding for the project afterwards - gets part of the state budget. I think that's the way I understand the process. So our legislators are actually getting two bites of this apple and we get one. We deal with the comp plan, the official streets and highways plan, the trails plan, our capital improvement budget, our bonds, all of those things that all tie into the road system in Anchorage. And the legislators pretty much don't deal with those issues and that is one of the concerns I have of having legislators on this committee." MR. BELL stated that the effect of a trails plan on Girdwood, in particular, is traumatic. It is probably even more traumatic for Girdwood than most other parts of Anchorage. Mr. Bell referred to the 'Three Rules of the North' and said the second rule is, "If it works, don't fix it." He informed the committee members that he believes the current AMATS Committee works just fine. He said he doesn't know if there has been any complaints about the committee, but there have been complaints about the process and the process the committee has to go through. That process is imposed by the federal government and he doesn't think it can be changed. Mr. Bell said, "I say we should abide by the second rule of the North and go with if it works, don't fix it." GEORGE WUERCH, Assembly Member, Municipality of Anchorage, testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He said he supports the legislation because he believes it fixes one of the major flaws in the system. He stated, "These are supposed to be metropolitan highway planning organizations. Unfortunately, under current AMATS structure two of the five members are frequently not residents or are not familiar with the metropolitan area of Anchorage. They are either commissioner appointees of the governor from the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities or the Department of Environmental Conservation. This proposed bill fixes that by requiring the two state members to be elected from a district that includes all or part of the metropolitan area. So that's point one, it clearly provides representation by residence. Point two, of course, is that by doing so we also shift the decision-making to elected officials and I think it's hard to argue against a process that puts the decisions (indisc.) of the people's representatives. So I would speak in favor of the change." Number 513 PAT ABNEY, Assembly Member, Municipality of Anchorage, testified via teleconference from Anchorage, against the proposed Rules Committee substitute for SB 259. She stated that she thinks it is important to have a representative from the Department of Environmental Conservation because of the concerns relating to air quality in Anchorage. Ms. Abney said she believes it is also important to have somebody from the DOT/PF because those are the people that they will have to work with as there are many state roads in Anchorage. She said, "We are the elected officials for the Municipality of Anchorage to deal with those issues that come before us and certainly transportation is one of those." Number 526 DAN KENDALL, Assembly Member, Municipality of Anchorage, was next to testify via teleconference from Anchorage, in support of SB 259. He stated that he believes that added elected officials at the state level will increase the communication between the city and the legislature on transportation needs for the city. He noted he represents the Chugiak/Eagle River area and they certainly have a great need, as they grow out there, to have a better response to their transportation. Number 535 TED CARLSON, Assembly Member, Municipality of Anchorage, testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He stated, "What I wanted to state first is that I do support the amendment that is being talked about right now. And I do want to let you know I do support that amendment, but that's not to say I support the bill as a whole, but I do support the amendment. But one question I had, Representative Kott, and that is under Section 1 and Section 2 where you state that one Senator and one Representative -- as you are well aware Representative Halford's area and also -- Senator Halford and Representative Kohring's area, the majority of their area is in the Mat-Su Borough and a small portion is within the Anchorage Borough. How will this be affected if one of them two were appointed to this committee? I think it would be very difficult for them to participate. Is there any way that language can be done at - put in differently so that the representative would have to be from the area as a whole?" Number 553 CHAIRMAN KOTT informed Mr. Carlson that the way he reads the bill is the Senate or the House member, if they are partially within the metropolitan area, would be eligible to serve as the member. He asked if that is the intent of the sponsor. SENATOR DONLEY responded that is the way the Senate passed the legislation. He said if that was a particular item that could make everything work, it would be easy to take "partially" out so that it would be clear that those members that don't have a full representation within the AMATS area wouldn't be eligible. Senator Donley stated that he believes that it is highly unlikely that Representative Kohring, although he participates in meetings, only 25 percent of his district is in Anchorage. It is really unlikely that the caucus would choose Representative Kohring unless he had a special interest in it. He stated if the committee wanted to, they could remove the "partially" language. MR. CARLSON said one of the reasons stated for this was that the individual representative was elected by a majority of the body, so he would have a vested interest. However, if only 25 percent of your constituents live in that area, he wouldn't really have a real vested interest because 75 percent would be elsewhere. SENATOR DONLEY said he wouldn't object to making it clear that the member on the AMATS Committee from the legislature would have to fully represent Anchorage. Number 574 CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Mr. Carlson if he understands him correctly in suggesting that with that amendment he would support the bill. MR. CARLSON responded that he hasn't made up his mind on that yet. He stated that he does support the amendment, but that's not say he supports the whole bill at this time. Number 584 MR. BEGICH interjected, "We do have after the testimony tonight and once we're back to our business within probably a half hour of off line, we will have a resolution in front of us to decide our position or reemphasize our position or not reemphasize our position depending on how the body votes. And that's why this testimony or discussion with you tonight is critical timing because if later, in the next half hour - 45 minutes, the assembly votes on this resolution - supporting this resolution - that will indicate even after this understanding of the bill and this other discussion, we will still oppose it. If the assembly turns it down, then it is a potential indication that we (indisc.) supporting the Senate bill. So you know that's kind of the process were in tonight." MR. CARLSON indicated he would call Senator Donley when the assembly votes on the resolution. Number 607 JOE MURDY, Assembly Member, Municipality of Anchorage, was the next person to testify via teleconference from Anchorage. He stated he takes the same position as Mr. Wuerch. He said he doesn't see any problem with the legislators being involved in the process. They are the ones that approve the funding. Mr. Murdy said he is comfortable as long as there are assembly members appointed that have a say as to what happens in Anchorage. The only thing he wouldn't like is to have a Senator or Representative that doesn't live in the Anchorage area sitting on that committee. Number 618 CHERYL CLEMENTSON, Assembly Member, Municipality of Anchorage, testified via teleconference from Anchorage. She informed the committee members she is the assembly's representative to AMATS and has been since January, 1997. She said she would like to reiterate that the United States Code calls for an agreement among the governor and the units of general purpose local government. It is a local planning organization and when we do not go about it in a cooperative effort, it does put our ability to receive federal funds at risk. Ms. Clementson informed the committee that over the weekend she asked Senator Donley what problem the bill would fix. She said she can't understand why all of a sudden the AMATS process needed to be changed. The response was that Anchorage wasn't getting its fair share of monies. Ms. Clementson said she wants to make sure the committee understands that the AMATS Committee has no way to determine how much money we get to spend. They only get to determine what the allocation process is and that the legislature itself has the ability to determine how much money comes to Anchorage or to any other area. She said if that is problem that is being fixed, the bill is not the way to do it. Anchorage has not asked for this help, the Office of the Governor has not asked for this help, the community councils have not asked for this help. She said as much as she appreciates the input, she doesn't think it is proper as she believes it seeks to dilute local control of this issue. She said if legislators would like to influence the priority listings, they have an ability to do that. MS. CLEMENTSON said, "I could cite a recent change that was made at Senator Donley's request and at his basic lobbying efforts to get a great separated interchange moved up on the list. It was an interchange at the intersection of Minnesota and International Airport Road. He used the process and it worked. He's also sent us a letter on the TIP that we're about to take action on tonight. That's a project ranking and once we received that letter, it was raised at the last meeting that we need to look into that and see if we can't readjust that project because he had some valid points and that's going through the process as well. The AMATS process is not something happened over night. It takes an incredible amount of public input. The person that we have on staff for that spends 110 percent of his time trying to get public input, trying to answer questions and trying to make sure that there is a well defined process for coming up (indisc.), listings for projects." MS. CLEMENTSON referred to Senator Ward's comment regarding the Eagle River Road project being taken off the list for trees. She said she believes he was referring to a Voice of the Times editorial that was printed several months ago when the assembly was discussing what funding scenarios for enhancements they would have. (Indisc.) if they were to increase the enhancement scenario to 15 percent and left the priority rankings the way they were, it would have displaced an Eagle River project, but that was like taking a bite out of the apple. It wasn't looking at the whole picture. Ms. Clementson said what the assembly members will have before them later in the evening is the entire picture. She informed the committee that the process that Mr. Wohlforth referred to is now one that brings the whole listing and priority ranking of projects before the assembly. When the AMATS Committee meets the following Thursday, she as the representative of the assembly is required to vote the way that the assembly votes regardless of what her individual opinion is. She said she believes that is a valid process because she is representing the vote of the majority in the assembly. Ms. Clementson said that if the legislature has concerns with the way money is being spent, perhaps they could come up with a similar process to what Mr. Wohlforth came up with in requesting a look at that list and getting some input, and maybe even giving some direction to the governor on it. To take two members of a different governing body who are not currently in the loop and insert them in, she fears it would make the process a little bit more political. MS. CLEMENTSON pointed out that in addition, Anchorage is in the process as being designed as a serious non-attainment area for carbon monoxide. It is a fairly new and serious thing. She indicated that the fact that there is a person from the Department of Environmental Conservation sitting on the policy committee is something that is used favorably at the EPA. They take it that we are treating this non-attainment issue as a very serious issue. She stated that they do work cooperatively, it is a very cooperative process and it is not one that needs to be fixed. She stated that she appreciates the offer to fix it, but it isn't broken. Ms. Clementson said the municipal attorney was asked to look at the issue because they are very concerned about erosion of local control. She asked Mary Hughes to address the issue. Number 677 MARY HUGHES, Attorney, Municipality of Anchorage, addressed the committee via teleconference from Anchorage. She said, "In situations like this, particularly dealing with state law, our office defers to the attorney general and I will do that in this situation. However, Mr. Bill Green of our office has worked many hours with Mr. Wohlforth in the codification of changes to our MPO and because of that is very, very familiar with the United States Code provisions. It is our opinion, and we will provide a written opinion later this week to the assembly, that the committee substitute for Senate Bill 259, which we had before us and that is not as I understand what is now before this committee, does not fulfill the purpose as cited in the United States Code with respect to the agreement. And it's been indicated prior in this context, the agreement between the governor and the units of general purpose local government. We are further concerned, and again I would defer to the attorney general, that because of the narrow applicability and the specific effect on Anchorage, there could be a constitutional problem with the Senate bill since it is so special and local and, therefore, may violate Article II, Section 19 of the Alaska Constitution." TAPE 97-7, SIDE B Number 001 MS. CLEMENTSON indicated that she had a comment following up on Mr. Carlson's concerns. She said she hopes the legislature is aware that there is a difference between the area that comprises the AMATS area and Anchorage per se. They do not have the same boundaries, so it is a little bit more complex than what the committee may understand it to be. BARBARA WYNEK, Vice President, Rabbit Creek Community Council; Secretary, Federation of Community Councils, was next to testify via teleconference from Anchorage. She said she has been very concerned about the AMATS process for a number of years, since about 1991. Ms. Wynek informed the committee that since 1993, she has attended almost every AMATS policy and (indisc.--coughing) meeting. She said she doesn't think there is a problem and she doesn't think the process is broken, but she believes it could be broken by passing the legislation. Often the meetings are called and there are certain deadlines that need to be met. She stated getting quorum is very important. To have two members fly in Juneau would be a problem. Ms. Wynek informed the committee members that she happens to be one of three citizens that ranked the projects for the TIP. She pointed out there are 13 to 17 different sets of criteria for each of the projects. This means you need to know a lot of very diversified knowledge and what's been going on. She said you also need to know what is important throughout the community and not just in your local area. She pointed out she lives at Rabbit Creek and said she knew Eagle River had some serious problems. Ms. Wynek explained what she did see in the Eagle River area which she didn't see in the Anchorage area, in the ranking of projects was the fact that the assembly people and the legislators got together and wrote letters that were in favor of the various projects. By sponsoring these projects, they actually won them points and moved them up on the TIP. She stated that she doesn't believe that by passing the legislation is the way to solve a problem because she does not think there is a problem. The public has many opportunities to weigh in on this. There will be a meeting later in the evening and there will be another meeting of the AMATS Committee. MS. WYNEK stated, "The national highway system is on the STIP. All the roads that are in the Anchorage area that are on the STIP have very little local control of which project gets ranked in what manner. Yes, Senator Donley did move something up on the STIP, but why aren't there more funds in the Anchorage area that fall in the national highway system? Some of the problems that you keep bringing up, like Tudor and Lake Otis, that's a national highway not a non-national highway, not a process that would be funded through the AMATS, but through the STIP. The Seward Highway is a STIP project, the Glenn Highway is STIP project, 'L' Street is a STIP project and Minnesota, International Airport Road is a STIP project, not a TIP - a STIP. What you need to do is look into that money and see why Anchorage gets so little of that part of the pot. Leave AMATS alone. Thank you." Number 141 KATHLEEN PLUNKETT testified via teleconference from Anchorage. She noted she is testifying on behalf of herself in opposition to the legislation. She informed the committee members she is very involved in the Anchorage community. She is involved as the chair of the Federation of Community Councils and she is also the president of the Russian Jack Community Council. Ms. Plunkett noted neither organization has taken a position other than being involved in the process. MS. PLUNKETT informed the committee members that she has been involved in the AMATS process for the last several years, and this last year she was involved in the ranking process for the enhancements like Ms. Wynek was. She stated that the ranking process works very efficiently. Legislative input, as well as community input, was important and was taken into account during the process. Ms. Plunkett referred to the Eagle River delegation and said both legislators and assembly members worked very well together to increase priority for some of their roads. They were the only ones that really did that effectively. Ms. Plunkett stated she feels that the AMATS process is best left with the Anchorage community just like all of our other planning documents and commissions as well as bonds that are approved. It is important to keep local control for AMATS in Anchorage. Number 176 SENATOR DONLEY said he agrees with some of the comments about trying to work with the mayor and governor to modify the compact. In fact, on December 8, 1997, he wrote to the executive branches and asked to work with them on that. The Governor didn't respond until March 17, 1998, over three months and one week after he wrote his letter saying that the Anchorage Caucus has adopted this as a priority - asking for them work with us on that. He said the legislation was introduced because the executive branch wouldn't respond when he wrote them to ask them work with him on this. The initial hope was to work with the Governor on this, but it was two months into session before a response was received. Number 196 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER suggested that the committee adopt the proposed Rules Committee substitute. After it is adopted, he said he would move to amend it to take out the "partially or" language that seems to be a problem. He said, "After having done that, I think then the assembly would have the document in front of them, having been adopted by us, to vote on and I would ask that we defer our action until that vote occurs with the amount of folks missing and looking at how the 'yes and nos' came out. We really don't know what their vote would be. If their vote is 'no,' I have a concern, as has been expressed, about whether or not we are putting in jeopardy the clause that requires a cooperative agreement. And if that is the case, I think we should certainly know that before we step in." Number 215 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER moved that the committee adopt the committee substitute for SB 259, Version Q, dated 4/4/98. There being no objection, Version Q was before the committee. REPRESENTATIVE PORTER moved to remove the words "partially or" on page 2, line 3, and on page 2, line 10. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS said, "That should be amended to line 5 and line 11 also." REPRESENTATIVE PORTER indicated that is correct. CHAIRMAN KOTT asked if there was an objection to Amendment 1. Number 233 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON indicated he had a comment. He said the amendment would remove some people within a municipality from having their legislators serve on.... CHAIRMAN KOTT said with the Municipality of Anchorage if you do not have a full vote on the Anchorage Caucus, you are excluded from being a member. There being no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS said she would agree with Representative Porter that it would be wise to wait to see what action is taken by the assembly to see where they stand on bill. She said her count shows six members opposed to the bill and three members support it. Representative Phillips stated she doesn't know if that would be the same vote on the new version, but they have sent a strong message and she doesn't have a problem waiting for their official action. CHAIRMAN KOTT said he agrees with Representative Porter. He said there may be some legal problems that should be addressed. Chairman Kott said he doesn't believe the committee should take any action until the resolution is received from the assembly indicating their position Version Q of SB 259. Chair Kott indicated that the bill would be held. Number 305 SENATOR DONLEY said, "If Mary Hughes is still there, just kind of a legal technical point. In Honolulu, their AMATS is created by a Hawaiian statute, it's a state law sets up the membership of their AMATS and it's specifically for the Oahu AMATS. And so this one is even more general than the Hawaiian law. And you know our [Alaska] Constitution is based on Hawaii Constitution - they were created the same time basically. And this one doesn't name Anchorage, it just deals with population over certain levels. So I don't think we've got a constitutional question there." CHAIRMAN KOTT indicated that the proposed committee substitute for SB 259 would be held to await the vote regarding the assembly's resolution.
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